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in the run up to the election, one of the most famous of the mitt romney's going to win in a landslide people has decided now to turn to new data. data about a problem that does not exist. the process of publicly failing up continues. that story is next. >>> welcome to post election 2012 america. discredited and disqualified are totally unrelated. that's next. >>> welcome to post election 2012 america. discredited and disqualified are totally unrelated. that's next. - one serving of cheese is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know. >>> things people are saying about the election that are not true, but it makes them feel better to say it any way. the man who came in second place for vice president this year is paul ryan. paul ryan, go. >> some of the turnout. some of the turnout in urban areas, which definitely gave president obama the big margin to win this race. >> president obama won reelection because of high turnout in urban areas. that's what paul rya
and politics. >> if we don't fundamentally change the way these elections are financed, you're going to keep getting candidates who are in favor of their funders, of course! >> that and an awesome elbow of the day. today is the birth of joseph r. biden. ladies and gentlemen, it's showtime. [ ♪ music ♪ ] >> well, the calm in the middle east is non-existent. as a matter of fact, today was supposed to be a day of trying to work things out. hillary clinton, secretary of state, broke off her trip to asia, went to israel today. the bombing as we just learned from cnn, it's continuing. >> just moments ago we're on the scenes. we'll watch this videotape as we watch what is unfolding. watch this. >> the day began as a day of diplomatcy. hillary clinton went to israel, and this is what they were trying to work out all day. [ explosion ] >> another day of violence in gaza. israeli airstrikes killed a senior militant and five others on an attack on a car. elsewhere, mass mitt tonights killed six people expected collaborating with israel. as attacks were both sides continue. >> i caution against a gr
the most expensive election of all time. >> we're here on the campus of ucla law school where they debate constitutional issues. today they're doing a convention on money out and voters in. >> and we have our elbow of the day later. jr jackson is going to love this. tweet us at tyt on current if you can guess who it is. zisko>>>el granada is a special place to learn because we have a dedicated community and a dedicated staff. and when kids come on campus everyday, they're enthusiasm for learning shines. we receive federal funding because a majority of our students are socially disadvantaged. making sure our students receive healthy nutritious lunches and breakfasts is critical to their learning. i would like to see students take more ownership of what they eat everyday and learn about their bodies and how their food nourishes them. sandra jonaidi>>> i hope that we get them early enough that they've learn some good eating habits and they go forward and become very productive humans and grow up to make us all proud of them. narrator>> for more info, go to curren
president obama's former campaign manager david plouffe and steve schmidt talk about the 2012 election. both mr. playoff and mr. schmidt attended the university of delaware. >> welcome back to the national agenda program. i'm director for the center of political communication. this is the final program of the 2012 presidential election season. i'm very very pleased that all of you are here tonight and i know that's a tribute to our two guest speakers this evening. two years ago in the wake of the sha lacking president obama took in the midterm congressional elections, the architect of the president's 2008 victory david plouffe stood on this stage and predicted the electorate voting in 2012 would be more diverse and younger than it was just two years earlier. he talked then about the growing latino electorate and he predicted that the obama campaign in 2012 would have to take advantage of those demographic opportunities. plouffe also predicted on this stage that the american people in 2012 would have had enough of republicans who were like glenn beck, sara palin and rush limbaugh. we are just
tonight to be able to report that the election has finally concluded in arizona, where it took them 14 days to count votes and announce the results this year. in the end, it turns out that all three competitive congressional races in that state went to the democrats. but the competitive u.s. senate race for republican jon kyl's old seat, that seat stayed republican. and yes, the county sheriff who did the whole taxpayer-funded stunt about having his cold case posse uncover the fraud of president obama's birth certificate, that sheriff did get re-elected, barely. last time he won by a 13-point landslide. this time he won by much less than that, but did get re-elected. and that public publicity-hungry arizona sheriff is not the only arizona republican elected official who has recently been fixated on the president's birth certificate. the arizona secretary of state this year threatened to keep president obama off the ballot in arizona for this year's election. because, you know, kenya, or whatever. and because that is the record of arizona's secretary of state, the state's current top el
obama, so they're blaming that liberal romney. that northeastern liberal crowd. texas senator-elect ted cruz is crueler still. he accuses romney of going out there and french kissing obama. yes, they're blaming romney now. they were blaming chris christie for working with obama during hurricane sandy. now they're blaming romney for dancing with him through the election. get it? the strict orthodox side of the republican party are blaming the candidate himself for giving away their virtue. ed rendell is the former governor of pennsylvania, and msnbc political analyst. matt kibbe is the president of freedomworks. governor and matt, this is the most unusual pairing i've ever been part of, you and matt kibbe, you and the man of the northeast establishment, a moderate governor of pennsylvania. here is matt railing at the ramparts against all you represent. this should be interesting. the right fights back. since the election a lot of republicans' soul searching has focused on the need to broaden the political base of the republican party. fiscal and social conservatives are saying that's the
6th, the election is over. >> presidential election, your prediction was wrong. >> big time. >> people are open on entitlement reform in a way they haven't been in the past. >> my analysis based on fact, not emotion. >> oh, my -- >> oh, wow. >> things people are saying about the election that are not true, but it makes them feel better to say it anyway. >> we start on a very important day that the world can be thankful for. a cease-fire in the middle east. secretary of state hillary clinton is heading home now after she and her egyptian counterpart announced the deal to end hostilities and greater cooperation between israel and gaza in the near future. >> the united states welcomes the agreement today for a cease-fire in gaza, for it to hold, the rocket attacks must end. a broader calm returned. the people of this region deserve the chance to live free from fear and violence and today's agreement is a step in the right direction that we should build on. >> this news comes after more than a week of violence that claimed 140 palestinian and 5 israeli lives. obviously, this day
won re-election fairly handily, but so did republican incumbents in the house. these are some stunning statistics that gerrymandering has created. 93% of the 205 house republicans who ran for re-election won. 88% of them won with 55% of the vote or more. the president received between 51% and 52% of the vote. once the votes are finally all counted. and even though everyone in washington may be saying the right thing, those facts make forging a deal structurally very difficult. on monday senator dick durbin admitted what we've been hearing behind the scenes. very little has been accomplished on negotiations on the staff level. >> now for ten days not much has happened. there's been a big thanksgiving break. a lot of turkey and stuffing. but now let's get back to business. >> although the white house said they remain optimistic, there doesn't appear to be a plan for another leadership meeting until progress is made between the white house team negotiating a deal that's led by secretary geithner but the house republicans, specifically in boehner's shop. in the meantime, to create the appe
for a major national security breakdown three weeks before the election. that is our job. >> senator durbin, you were shaking your head there. >> if this was an nfl game, they would be criticized for piling on. she got the report from the intelligence committee and reported it to the public. just exactly what we expect her to do. they have decided not to include the al qaeda reference so we wouldn't compromise your sources in benghazi and libya and now we have the committees of jurisdiction, the foreign relations committee and homeland security committee all taking an honest, bipartisan look at this. it's the way it should be done. george, i have enough time here in washington to remember when president ronald reagan in lebanon saw our embassy attack and then a barracks bombed where 230 u.s. marines were killed. that sort of thing should at least call the attention of the united states to look to ways to avoid these tragedies in the future. instead this has just been a dance fest to go after ambassador rice. that should come to an end. let's get down to the basic issues as the state departm
's not unique to this election or republican party. in 2004 many democrats believed he had a device on his shoulder so he would be given instructions during the debate. it's snanty. i think in our politics today both parties want to construct an image of their opponent that is not grounded in reaty. so the alternative universe. there are two. one is the romney campaign had an unrealistic view of what the electorate was going to be and that was one of the reasons they lost. certainly one of the reasons they went in the election confident. th wasn't an act. they thought they were going to win. but there is this view of barack obama. if you read and watch the conservative entertainment complex how could this guy get re-elected because we're socialist and week on terism and we're not honest and tt's not how most of america cease the president. even those that voted against us, most of them don't see us that way. so that is the problem. i think it's an underestimating of your opponent's strength and the reality of how people view them. d there was a ridicule that i think -- i don't fully unders
also at fault. >> mr. samaras has become an inseparable part of ms. merkel's election campaign. she cannot admit to the german people in the run-up to elections that she made a mistake, that she is responsible for the coming recession and that the greek debts must be cut. >> the german finance minister continues to reject that option. he says he was confident that an agreement would be reached when eurozone ministers meet next week. >> chancellor angela merkel said there was no easy solution to the problems in athens, but she said she was confident that eurozone finance ministers would release that next round of bailout money next week. >> the leader of the opposition, however, accused merkel of failing to reveal the true cost of the measures to help greece and said this made it impossible to pass germany's own budget. our political correspondent has been following the budget debate for us. the chancellor faced some tough criticism on her handling of the year of crisis. what more can you tell us? >> indeed, one of the main critical voices was that of the social democratic leader, an
is part of the palestinian people. and the question of leadership, it is authentic. people elected leader but if the americans try to divert the attention of the central issue of how to go about controlling one party or another, this would be a great mistake to peace in the region >> are you concerned that all the dealings here appear to be have been done directly with hamas and not with a wider group? >> president was not absent from the negotiations. of course when there is a fire, it goes to the cause of the fire. but it is part and parcel of the palestinian struggle against the occupation and if we were to look for the future of the cease fire, another mistake would be made. we have to lead with the root cause. the ults nited states of americs right when it started. to give priority to the conflict to put the barometers for that. president obama himself on the 19th of may of last year, when he spoke from the state department he outlines how peace can be achieved. unfortunately, this was not followed by the americans. they kept a blind eye to the measures that were destructive to the p
. registration of candidates starts on sunday, kicking off election campaigning. three hopefuls have already said they're ready for the job. pak is ahead in the opinion polls. she's a daughter of former president. she's aiming to be the country's first woman president. moon was a close aide to the late president. a software entrepreneur, aung gained fame for his anti-virus programs. some call him the bill gates of south korea. representatives of both moon and aung have been talking about joining forces. polls suggest their only chance against pak is to agree on a unified candidacy. moon and aung held their first and only televised debate on wednesday to decide who should go up against pak. >> translator: i think i'm the best prepared candidate for those who want to run for president because of my experience in national politics. >> moon criticized aung for his lack of political experience, saying he's better suited to lead the country. aung responded by saying that south korean politics needs to change and that he is the one who can do that. >> translator: one citizen told me i should run for pre
their next president. registration of candidates starts on sunday, kicking off election campaigning. three hopefuls have already said they're ready for the job. the ruling party is ahead in the opinion polls. pak is a daughter of former president. she's aiming to be the country's to be the first woman president. moon was a close aide to the late president. an independent contender. awning is a software entrepreneur who gained fame for his anti-virus programs. some call him the bill gates of south korea. representatives of moon and aung have been talking about joining forces. they held their first and only debate on wednesday to decide who should go up against pak. >> translator: i think i'm the best prepared candidate for those who want to run for president because of my experience in national politics. >> moon criticized aung for his lack of political experience, saying he's better suited to lead the country. aung responded by saying that south korean politics needs to change and that he is the one who can do that. >> translator: one citizen told me i should run for president. otherwe, th
wins this fight. sadly the real reason we've reached this point is because our elected representatives simply have no idea how to stop spending your money. as a result, the door has been kicked wide open for democrats to use this as an opportunity to scare you into thinking more government, well, that's got to be the answer. we've heard all of this before. now during both the obamacare and the stimulus debates, fear mongering was this president's go-to strategy into getting his way. this is what he predicted would happen unless his so-called recovery plan was passed. >> the situation we face could not be more serious. we've inherited an economic crisis as deep and dire as any since the great depression. economists across the spectrum have warned if they don't act immediately million more jobs will disappear, the national unemployment rate will approach double digits, more people will lose their homes and their healthcare, and our nation will sink into a crisis that at some point is going to be that much tougher to reverse. >> sean: a lot of good that did. what's stopping obama from imp
him, the people who elected him so he would defend the people. >> reporter: that could provoke more trouble after a weekend of violence hitting liberal and secular factions against morse's islamist supporters. last night in cairo, protesters threw rocks at police who fired back with tear gas. demonstrators also clashed with pro-morsi egyptians. attacks on the local offices of the muzz lum brotherhood left one teenager dead and dozens of people wounded. thousands of the president's backers staged rallies in several cities. >> we support mohamed morsi's correct decision and eventually the good from the bad will be distinguishable. we support dr. morsi. >> u.s. officials raised concerns about morsi's decree. today the state department's victoria newlyand called for calm. >> what is important to us is that these issues be slelgted through dialogues, that these issues be selgtzed democraticry. we are encouraged that the various important stakeholders in egypt are now talking to each other, that president morsi is consulting on the way forward but we're not going to prejudge where that wi
the election about the fiscal cliff. what is at stake here for both sides? what happens if they don't get a deal? >> well, look. i think what happens to both sides, it's not even what happens to both sides, what happens to us which is the collective, right? it's what happens to the country which is 4% of gdp disappears overnight. and that's what this is all about. by the way, it's not just about what happens january 1st or 11:59 the day before january 1st. it's already starting to impact the economy. whether it impacts consumers -- and we'll find out today, by the way, in terms of thanksgiving and what's that meant, whether consumers are coming out or not -- but thoorz the bigger issue that manufacturing has already started to slow down. people are starting to worry. it may end up in the economic numbers already, just the fact that we're having this debate. and then come january 1st, do we go over? what does that mean? is it the fiscal cliff? or does it look like the fiscal bungee cord? that's what some people are calling it. we go over for two weeks and then we snap back and get a deal a
! cut taxes for the wealthiest! i'm glad we had an election, guys. the whole point of the election was to raise taxes on the rich and now they're turning around and say we'll take money from them too we're going to. >> you and stick you with the bill and give it to the rich. if only someone had warned you about this. july of this year, well before the election, democrats were talking about we're going to raise taxes on the rich and we're going to take away those bush tax cuts for the rich, somebody had a different idea. let's see if we can figure out who that is. >> the democrats are acting tough now. this is definitely a positive story. they say they're going to let all this stuff expire and only bring tax cuts for the middle class. they will do no such thing. if president obama wins, they will sign a grand bargain where they will cut social security, medicare, cult programs for the poor cut programs for the middle class and yes, they will give some tax cuts definitely to corporations, and perhaps even to the rich. >> perhaps even to the rich. it looks like we're headed towards th
nonsense is so freely propogated. >> she is the fourth woman elected to the senate and the first republican. 20 years in the senate. >> the first ones don't see their success, but what they do does prepare the way for the mechanics generation or the next woman to move to the next level. >> he, for good or bad, always goes his own way. 25 years in the senate. >> what, after all, is a democrat like me doing at a republican convention like this? >> at the end of his term they are leaving for good voluntarily. >> i yield the floor. >> i yield the floor. >> i yield. >> i yield the floor. >> today farewell to congress with arizona senator john kyl, massachusetts congressman barney frank, senator kay bailey hutchison of texas, and the connecticut independent joe lieberman. i'm candy crowley, and this is "state of the union." >>> 35 members of congress retired this year. ten in the senate. 25 in the house. the highest number of retirmts since 1996. i sat down with four of the retirees at senate joe lieberman's hide-away offense in the capitol to talk about what they'll miss, what they won't miss, t
raise tax rates. which is why he's pushing against that idea. two senate republicans up for re-election in 2014 have bucked norquist saying they are willing to let taxes ride. chambliss spoke to his hometown station. >> that pledge i signed 20 years ago was valid then. it's valid now, but times have changed significantly. and i care more about this country than i do about a 20-year-old pledge. >> on sunday south carolina senator lindsey graham also broke ranks saying the norquist pledge can no longer be a conservative litmus test. >> when you're $16 trillion in it debt, the only pledge we should be making to each other is to avoid becoming greece. but i will violate the pledge, long story short, for the good of the country only if it democrats will do entitlement reform. >> but a bipartisan consensus to raise taxes grows, republicans insist they won't budge on kaepg the bush tax rates for the wealthiest at 33% and 35%. they've expressed more openness to raising revenue by eliminating individual loopholes and deductions in the tax code and believe they have public opinion on their side.
-to-face meeting since the election and oh, to be a fly on the wall. makes you wonder if they'll be talking about this, the austerity crisis, better known as the fiscal cliff facing washington and the country. this hour president obama will speak live at the white house flanked by middle-class families whose household budgets depend on congress reaching a deal by january 1st. his latest effort to use his bully pulpit. nearby on capitol hill, both parties are meeting behind closed doors at this very minute. each side hashing out where they are willing to compromise and where they are drawing the line in the sand. >>> the other big story we're watching for you, a second round of sitdowns for united nations ambassador susan rice, who's in an all-out campaign of her own to face her critics. after three republicans issued blistering comments yesterday, this morning rice is meeting with republican senator susan collins of maine and in an hour is expected to meet with senator bob corker of tennessee. rice's harshest krit eks are still vowing to block her potential nomination as next secretary of state.
elected officials don't know how to stop spending money. let me first play a small part of one of the most memorable inaugural addresses of all time. >> my fellow americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. >> sean: sadly five decades removed from that iconic speech, the democratic party, its leaders, and countless other americans, rely on government for too many things. instead of asking what they can do for their country, they're asking what their country can do for them. now the debt record is at record levels, tax rates are soaring, because nowadays handouts have taken the place of hard work. a liberal notion has permeated our society one that now says the federal government, it's their job to find you a job. it's the so-called rich that should have to pay more in order to bankroll somebody's healthcare, or buy somebody's birth control regardless of their religious beliefs. simply calling this an entitlement society is a gross understatement. in the next 35 days, republicans and democrats will likely come together, announce a temporary dea
under investigation for misuse of campaign funds and was facing a congressional ethics probe. he won re-election to the house in november. jackson's seat is now expected to be filled through a special election. mortgage rates in the u.s. fell to record lows this week-- helping to boost home sales. the average 30-year loan rate dropped to 3.3%, the lowest on record since records began in 1971. on wall street today stocks moved slightly higher ahead of the thanksgiving holiday. the dow jones industrial average gained 48 points to close under 12,837. the nasdaq rose nearly ten points to close above 2,926. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to judy. >> woodruff: and more now on the mid east story. will the cease fire reached today between israel and hamas, hold? and what about longer-term, more difficult issues between the two sides? ray suarez picks it up. >> suarez: i'm joined now by veteran diplomat and former ambassador nicholas burns. and hisham melhem, washington bureau chief for al arabiya tv. mr. ambassador, as you heard from the reporters earlier in the program, the shooti
, these are noises that you made to sound conciliatory after an election, and we think back to 2009. the republicans sounded very conciliatory in the days after president obama's reelection when he was holding a high approval rating, but by april or may of his first year that that had melted away. so right now is happy talk from the republicans. we will see whether that materializes into votes. lou: such happy talk, why aren't there more smiling faces in the republican party? >> pretty unhappy talk from what i can tell, and to this point pretty frivolous. you see members of the united states senate demand is not even their negotiations, but taking a timeout to beat up on grover norquist to is some on elected activists type who was not a player in this and does not have a seat at the negotiating table, was not elected. what does he have to do with any of this? is seems to me this is the opportunity for the republicans in the house, but also to some extent in the senate to explain what they want to know what kind of entitlement cuts that will demand. instead they're beating a boy norquist. lou: we als
. let me give you the phone numbers again. how did you vote in the last election? did you vote with the intention of one-party rule in your state legislature? what are your priorities, if so? let me read this -- on a federal level, folks believe a divided government has republicans in control of the house and democrats in control of the senate and president obama reelected to a second term in the white house. on a federal level, people believed compromise is possible. not so, says the new york times, on the state level. what are your thoughts on this? we also posted the question on our facebook page. we have a couple comments -- you can post your comments as well on facebook if you want to participate that way, or send us an e-mail or a tweet. this is inside the new york times and they have a chart showing the outcomes of the 2012 elections -- that's how it breaks down. norma is a democrat in st. petersburg, florida. what is your state legislature like and what are your priorities? caller: i voted democratic. i believe that obama offered than did the republican party. the candi
the turkish border. >> suarez: we continue our conversations with newly-elected senators. judy woodruff talks with virginia democrat tim kaine. >> i intend to hit the ground on january 3 very much running. > running. we can make progress quickly if we listen to each other and find those points of common ground they think do exist. >> brown: mark shields and david brooks analyze the weeks news. >> suarez: spencer michels has the story of a growing crackdown on dissidents and journalists in iran. >> brown: and we close with poet jennifer fitzgerald on hurricane sandy's destructive path through her home town of staten island. that's all ahead on tonight's newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> and by the bill and melinda gates foundation. dedicated to the idea that all people deserve the chance to live a healthy productive life. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the
, and it has become susan rice for quite some time during the election period as well as this time frame, and that seems to be a where a lot of public focus is, even though they raise criticisms about the intelligence community nor broadly. >> absolutely. kelly, thank you so much. joining me now is former state department middle east officer joel ruben, and molly ball and michael skirmonsih and jimmy williams. you heard kelly o'donnell report that the face of all of this is susan rice, but we know that the intelligence, the talking points, if you will, did not originate from her or the u.n. is it appropriate she's the face of all of this in your opinion? >> thank you, tamron, for having me on. it's unfortunate that dr. rice has become the face of this, because, in fact, she is a highly regarded accomplished civil servant leading our mission in the united nations. she was put in the spotlight in order to communicate what the intelligence community and administration believed to be the best way to communicate the attack on benghazi. rightly now congress is looking at the question of what w
for coming on the show, sharing your insights even if it is a mess. >> sure. >> eliot: the election means a new day and a new deal on the fiscal cliff. robert reich joins us coming up ahead. the first 1,000 days of human life can cause irreparable harm to our brains and our bodies. that's why "current" has partnered with "1,000 days" to help spread the word & combat a problem that ultimately effects all of us. to see how you can help go to current dot com. brought to you by the all new dodge dart. dodge - new rules. >> eliot: how does hp make a mistake this big and i mean big! our number of the day $8.8 billion! that's how much hp says it overpaid for british software company. last year, hp bought autonomy for $11.1 billion. today hp announced that oops,oomi is -- autonomy is worth a fraction of that. autonomy misrepresented its finances. but if hp got hoodwinked, how? how could they miss something they claim is that big. autonomy was audited by deloitte and it was audited by kpmg, two of the big four accounting firms. they didn't noti
am confused. i remember hearing that democratic nations are peaceful, hamas democratically elected in 2006, morsi government was just elected and they become more anti-american, more dangerous to israel, more anti-western. what went wrong with our understanding of democracy here? >> i think it was much too limited. democracy is a culture. it's a way of life. it's not just simply holding an election and counting votes. it takes a long time to get it in place. it's no knock on any particular region or religion to say that. people have recognized it as far back as jon stewart, in europe they didn't cover themselves in glory in the last century. in russia having passed out of authoritarianism may be going back into it. so the fact that a group can gel elected in the and they believe the first 9/11 was an inside job can elect the president of egypt is no surprise. what it shows the general deterioration of the security situation for the united states, for israel and other friends in the region that has certain under the obama administration. >> so we should stop promoting democracy as a
the new government is formed as the new elections are on january 23rd. >>> and on to egypt, things are calm right now after four straight nights of violent protests. tahrir square, a large crowd still camped out there. and just in the past hour mohamed morsi met with top judges. morsi issued a decree seizing new powers. it sparked massive riots that killed one protesters. nbc's jim maceda joins us live. we were advised to be careful when saying morsi tried to seize power. specifically run down the decree or what he's seeking here. >> reporter: well, the whole issue of power is what's at stake, and you mentioned that meeting in your lead. that meeting with -- between morsi and top egyptian judges is absolutely critical to this whole playing out of what's going to happen to egyptians in this country. that face-to-face meeting has been going on now for almost four hours. there were indications going into it that a compromise was close, and now this gets into legalistic leads but this is important. it's about a constitutional crisis. it does appear that morsi agrees to a sweep of the d
on election night and thanking his family and his supporters. according to the pew research center he could have also thanked the media for his win. the people of pew found media coverage of president obama was more positive at 29% during the last week of campaigning before election day. coverage of mitt romney on the other hand, mostly negative, 33% that same week. so, should this be a big thank you to the media for his reelection? >> no, i mean, i think he would have lost the election because of their get out the vote things as well. >> you're talking about romney. >> that's right, but if you look at the media's coverage and the pew people have said that they thought it was that reporters were paying attention to the polls. well, you know what? reporters unless they're reporting on a poll should not be paying attention to polls he when they write their story and be aware of any unconscious bias. >> jon: somehow, i suspect, jim, you're not surprised by the numbers from pew. >> no i'm not and i've cited before evan thomas saying it could be 15 points in an election and amended that to say 5
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 365 (some duplicates have been removed)

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